Strike The Root Blog

But Bill, think about it.

Bill O’Reilly is, of course, known for saying incredibly boneheaded things with astonishing regularity. Once in awhile, he even writes an excrementitious book or two. Trust me: I used to read them in my personal Dark Age as a “God’n'Country Republican.” Please forgive me.

The latest one is really rich. A caller said this:

[Immigrants] also bring corrupting influences, too, like a third-world value system, which may not place much value on education, that can corrupt the education system.

To which O’Reilly responded:

Absolutely. And that’s why the dropout rate is so high. But let me just make one point: If you say “F you,” to a teacher in Mexico, that teacher can go out and beat the hell out of you — and worse, if you do it in El Salvador, Nicaragua, and those places. So, those kids would never dare, because there’s no, like, rules down there. You disrespect a teacher down there, you’re gonna be bleeding.

So, first off, in the “No Spin Zone,” more people would stay in school if they were bloodied on occasion by teacher-taskmasters.

It goes without saying that that’s ridiculous. The drop-out rate is high because American public schools - and public schools in general - are alienating for many groups of people, especially the exceptionally bright and the not-so-bright who have no interest in school. Dropouts occur simply because people - especially the latter group - lose interest in what happens in government “schools.”

It’s already been ably argued that higher education is grossly oversold (.pdf) in the United States. The same is true of high school; think of all your friends from high school - or maybe yourself - who simply detested school.

It has nothing to do with whether or not one my freely curse at “teachers.”

But, for a moment, let’s take on face value the contention that immigrants are poisoning the American “educational ethic.”

It raises the question: how would that be different from the present situation?

You see, some of us who aren’t shills for the State realize that schools are not about “education” or “social justice” or anything of the like. They really never have been. The American public education system was modeled (even if its architects wouldn’t admit it) on the tyrannical Prussian model of compulsory education and other evil devices. The Prussian system in turn probably drew some of its inspiration from the state-worshiping “ethic” of ancient Sparta, where children were stolen from their mothers by the state at an early age, and then placed in barracks to be readied for fighting and dying for tyrants. John Taylor Gatto writes:

First, though, we must wake up to what our schools really are: laboratories of experimentation on young minds, drill centers for the habits and attitudes that corporate society demands. Mandatory education serves children only incidentally; its real purpose is to turn them into servants.

O’Reilly and his caller are concerned that immigrants are “importing” an anti-education attitude. But, in response they should ask themselves this: even if this “values import” is really taking place, what would it replace?

America’s very own anti-education ethic, of course.

I for one wish that pupils would say “F you” to their teachers more often.

Further reading: Inside American Education, Sowell; “Against School”, Gatto, “Enterprising Education”, Young and Block; and Education: Free and Compulsory, Rothbard.

This entry was posted on Friday, January 19th, 2007 at 1:05 pm and is filed under immigration, statism, tyrants!. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

31 Responses to “But Bill, think about it.”

rettafontana Says:
January 19th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
I can think of a few teachers I’d like to use the “f” word on….I could use it on Bill O’Reilly too, come to think of it. I don’t know how you can listen to his drivel. I guess he’s like a traffic accident that looks really bad, but you can’t help but gawk at anyway, in hopes of glimpsing something truly gruesome.
Thomas Van Wyk Says:
January 19th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
I don’t know how you can listen to his drivel.

Oh, I don’t. At least not any more. I came to my senses a few years ago.

I just regularly check the Media Matters website.

Not surprisingly, O’Reilly provides them with plenty of fodder.
beev Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 8:15 am
I think the point of the “f you” comment has been missed. I don’t know a whole lot about this Bill O’Reilly fellow, but it seems to me the point he was trying to make was that you CAN get away with it in the States because you DON’T get a beating. In no sense was he saying ‘more people would stay in school if they were bloodied on occasion by teacher-taskmasters’. That is a blatant misinterpretation of his words.
Thomas Van Wyk Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Blatant misinterpretation? Come on.

If you knew more about Bill O’Reilly you’d realize that that sort of authoritarian statement fits in damn well with other things Bill honestly believes.
beev Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Well, I do know a bit about Bill. I don’t live in America so I haven’t been exposed to his broadcasting, but do I know about his views, and the controversy that surrounds him, and the criticisms that are levelled at him.

I not trying to say Bill O’Reilly is some kind of saint, but the writer of this post is putting words into his mouth. And it is a clear misinterpretation. You only have to look at the words.

It’s very obvious that the writer of the post dislikes O’Reilly and wants to discredit him. But I don’t think that excuses the kind of misrepresentation that is being achieved here.

Like many blogs, Strike The Root is very opinionated. But does having strong opinions justify twisting the words of others? I would suggest that it does not.
Thomas Van Wyk Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Well, I do know a bit about Bill. I don’t live in America so I haven’t been exposed to his broadcasting, but do I know about his views, and the controversy that surrounds him, and the criticisms that are levelled at him.

Good for you. Have a cookie.

I not trying to say Bill O’Reilly is some kind of saint, but the writer of this post is putting words into his mouth. And it is a clear misinterpretation. You only have to look at the words.

First, the writer of this post has a name.

Second, the writer of this post is not putting words into O’Reilly’s mouth. There’s no need to - he’s got plenty of verbal diarrhea to go around. He doesn’t need my help.

I really don’t see where your quibble is.

It’s very obvious that the writer of the post dislikes O’Reilly…

Uhh… thanks for clearing that up…
Learn something every day, I guess.

…and wants to discredit him.

He needs not be discredited. He does a fine job of that himself.

But I don’t think that excuses the kind of misrepresentation that is being achieved here.

How in the gods’ names am I misinterpreting? I really don’t know what orifice you’re pulling that from. Here’s a recap:
The caller said that the reason American education is messed up is because immigrants are “important” bad values.
Bill responds that… oh, to hell with it. I’ll let him speak for himself:

Absolutely. And that’s why the dropout rate is so high. But let me just make one point: If you say “F you,” to a teacher in Mexico, that teacher can go out and beat the hell out of you — and worse, if you do it in El Salvador, Nicaragua, and those places. So, those kids would never dare, because there’s no, like, rules down there. You disrespect a teacher down there, you’re gonna be bleeding.

O’Reilly agrees with the caller that “foreign” “value systems” are perverting American education. He then explains that in other countries beating people up keeps them in line. That’s the implication. The implication is that the dropout rate according to Bill is high because American students don’t get the shit beat out of them. O’Reilly said as much. If you don’t see that that is exactly what O’Reilly is saying, I don’t know what you’re reading.

I fail to see where you’re coming from with this charge of misinterpretation, because O’Reilly was very explicit that he thinks the American education system would be better if it was more authoritarian.

Like many blogs, Strike The Root is very opinionated.

You know, I can’t think of a single blog I’ve ever read that isn’t opinionated. Okay, maybe a “cat blog” or two. If it wasn’t my “opinion,” I wouldn’t have stated it. Try saying something else abundantly obvious.

But does having strong opinions justify twisting the words of others?

Of course not. But you’re the one making the claim that I - oops, “the writer” - misinterpreted an explicit statement by O’Reilly, so naturally the onus probandi is on you to prove why you think “the writer” is “misinterpreting” an explicit statement by O’Reilly. You haven’t met the burden of proof at all.
beev Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Funny.

You say “O’Reilly was very explicit that he thinks the American education system would be better if it was more authoritarian.”

Yet he was not. You have decided that is what you want it to mean. But his real meaning is quite clear: he thinks students who come from other countries are more likely to talk back to teachers in the US because the consequences are not nearly as great in America. He might be suggesting that immigration be more controlled, but at no point does he suggest what you say he suggests.

On another point, do you think that being rude is going to help convert people to your cause?
Thomas Van Wyk Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Wow. Way to miss the point.

Re being rude, I can lay it on thicker if you prefer. But try this on for size:

With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plea; but to tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will certainly be lost.

- Garrison

I’ll leave it at that. This “discussion” isn’t worth my time.
beev Says:
January 30th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
So you don’t want to argue because you will certainly lose? Okay then. But well done for trying!
Thomas Van Wyk Says:
January 31st, 2007 at 10:40 am
Typical. Kudos on missing the point again.
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But Bill, think about it.

31 Responses to “But Bill, think about it.”

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