Memorial Day Propaganda

Comments

Glock27's picture

Some of what you say I have to agree with. No argument, no debate needed. I do resent your attack on the brave young men and women who are serving and getting murdered by radically insane middel eastern countries and even here American citizens taking up the same radically insane Muslim group. Attack politicians or other radical groups, but I believe you have no right to do verbal violance against the men and women serving for what they believe in. Your words are just as much a violent aggresion as pointing a firearm at someone and shooting them.
You claim to be a libertarian, but your article seems to reflect something other than. You seem to believe everyone should think the same as you and this smacks of being somewhat tyrannical. I think maybe you took your facts and then reacted emotionally to them to press or impress an agenda that you believe in just as terroist believe in their cause.
Do you honestly believe terroist care about what you believe?
Witn all due respect, next time please leave the innocent grunts and jar heads out of your arguments.

Marvin's picture

How could we have a war if no one showed up to fight? If we are to strike the root then simply soldiers are the root. Hitler and Stalin are not the most evil people in the world what about the people who followed them. We all have to take responsibility for our actions there are no innocent grunts. Misguided, blinded, tricked maybe but we all have to put off our foolishness and misconceived notions at some point if not then we are perpetually children who do things just because our parents(Government) told us so. For example the Christmas Truce in WW1, why couldn't men realize that everyday is as precious as Christmas and decided never to fight again? They had a glimmer of insight to see the enemy("dirty terrorists") as men themselves.

Way before my time, but listen to and read the lyrics of "Universal Soldier". As even us, those who are not in the military are to blame for not doing more for peace.

Glock27's picture

In essence then the whole of the human race is just simply stupid If this is the proposition then libertarians are stupid as well. Dreams are one thing and reality is another. We have to face the realities of others, ergo I believe it is not an intelligent move too believe that other men will not recognize that everyday is as precious as Christmas and decide never to fight again. That logic does not match with an alternate intelligence, and culture, where a religion says that everyone else is nothing more than fagots to be burned, all christians must die, all Americans must die. This is a reality demonstrated daily. (You can't honestly believe that you will change a communist to a libertarian principle, or a radical Muslim who wants all Jews off the face of the earth and Americans). Proclaiming to be a libertarian is one thing, but doing something constructive about it is another. I wish there were a solution, but I cannot see one. The only thing I can think of is to become one of them (speaking here now about the federal government) and fight from the inside out.

These sites are terriably interesting, but I never see anyone working towards a solution, actually presenting a workable plan. Even if there were, how would it be deployed to make a difference. The government we have is all we have and the change has to come from there unless there is a bonified revolution, and I don't see that coming either.
All of this is nothing more than a dream unless there is an applied action to make it become a reality. For me, I am for the grunt, right or wrong they are under the belief that they are doing good, they bleed and they die for something they think is right. I am greatful for their sacrifice. As a libertarian they should still be respected. I just hope that when SHTF they do not turn on their own citizens as has occurred in other countries.
I persist in saying that their beliefs have a right to be respected. Without respect there will never be a middle ground to be reached.
I recognize that we have lost everything, starting with Washington and the "Whiskey Tax Rebellion". I would deeply appreciate having all my freedoms back, but they are lost. To gain them back one must work with what is currently available, not against it--for working against it only creates impentratable barriers that will never be over come.
Please note this is not a criticism, but an observation. I am not arguing but presenting an idea. If you have an answer then please offer it. Criticism will not change my perspect only solid, rational reason will achieve that.

Samarami's picture

Both of the above comments have merit and are well thought-out. I support you both in your willingness to comment and express yourselves. That's what liberty is all about, and it will come from the likes of us -- not from vultures of state and their state wars.

Please never kid yourself that any war anywhere fought by any warrior has ever brought "freedom" to anybody. All wars from early history have led to subjugation, abject slavery, and unbelievably large numbers of mutilations, rapes and deaths of innocent victims -- not to mention conflicting participants who are NOT "innocent".

That's what war is. Always.

I'm 76. I was enslaved ("drafted") as a child by agents of state and forced to become a murderer. I served nobody. I did a disservice to all who were alive then, and who have been born since (including my 7 children and their families). Please do not insult me by thanking me "for my service". The 14 months I spent in Korea taught me some valiant lessons in rejecting statism and embracing anarchy, which is peace.

I've spent the better part of sixty years forgiving myself and getting to anarchy and STR. That does not absolve me from blame. If I were to return to providing aid and comfort to "the state" (which does not exist -- only its agents and supporters exist) I would take on the same old killer instinct and guilt I've worked to jettison.

Political holidays such as this are a stroke of genius on the part of the beast to prompt the unwashed masses to stand up and root for state parasites and their violence in drumming up and conducting state wars. War drums are a-beatin' over in the District of Collectivism as we speak. If they can't find an excuse to bomb Iran, they'll bomb Syria.

Be free, and Abstain From Beans

Sam

Glock27's picture

Sam, I will not insult you by thanking your for your service to the millions of Americans of this Great Nation (not the government, but us as a people wanting to be free). I served during the Viet Nam era, didn't want to, but I knew I did not have the freedom to choose differently then so I went ahead and did it to get it over with. I agree whole heartedly and with the deepest respect that war is something out of the bowels of hell created by greedy, self-agrandizing zelots. However I strongly object to dispariging those who served their country (not their government). Iraq should never have happened. But I respect the blood soaked ground young men and women are dying on, I repect their decision.
I do not like this bull-shit anymore than anyone else. Today I would never volunteer, but I would respect those who do, it is their belief. If they can be taught different then so be it. The hellishness of this is what do you do if we do not engage an enemy whom is threatening the lives of our children and grandchildren and possible enslavement of a worse nature for the future generations. As I underestand it a Libertarian is anti-aggression unless aggressed against. Do you wait until the guy on the next stool knocks the mortal hell out of you before you become offenive. Do you suggest that we let Iran shoot the first nuclear weapon on one of our cities and kills hundreds of thousand american lives. If this is Libertarianism then I wish no part of it. When I walk out of my house I am already in a defensive mode ready to become offensive in a heart beat.
Sam. I sincerely hope that if someone should thank you for your service you will merely nod your head and walk on by. If I am correct this is the conduct a libertarian would take.
I thank vets, but I never mention that I also served. I thank them because I respect them and the decision they made. I Sam, I am curious though. Was it not possible for you to have gone to Canada at the time you were drafted? It may not have crossed your mind at the time, but during the Viet Nam Era I know some who did exactly that. I do not disparage them for their decision because it was their "Natural Freedom" that gave them the choice. If I had know then, as I do now, I probably would have scooted to Canada myself.

Marvin's picture

First of all you are free. Freedom is from within not without. They may throw you in a prison, tax you, take away your "rights" but you are always free. This is the hardest thing to realize, that you have to free yourself from mental slavery. It's easier to fight the bad guys without than to tackle the slave master in your mind. It doesn't happen instantly and it's a process, I guess until you die. The only "solution" is in each individual. To force a solution on others because we believe we have the answer is the same thing governments do. You have to come up with your own plan. Will people resist you? Yes. Will others hate you for your beliefs, ethnicity, sexual preference, or even your intelligence? They always have and always will. You can't change the world but you can change yourself and when I change myself for the better my world becomes better.

As for the WW1 Christmas truce, it was acted on by the men in the trenches on both sides, I'm saying what was so different about the 25th of December, that made them realize that the enemy was human just like them and lay down their weapons, than let's say January 22? Nothing just a mindset.

If you haven't already, read Thoreau's work or Emerson, Lysander Spooner, Tolstoy and many others. I'm sure the same sentiments these writers have put on paper you have thought from time to time. What brought me close to Thoreau was not me blindly following the sayings of a man but finding that the same thoughts he had were my own reflected back to me.

Yes Samarami, we are all blind in aspects of our lives but the great thing is that we see our faults and become better.

Glock27's picture

I like your point, and I was aware of the WWI Christmas thingy, just didn't realize that was what you were refering to. I do believe though we would never see the same from "RADICAL Muslim Terroist". I wuderstand the WWI. No one really wanted that. It is my understanding that on the British side the officers were ordered to threaten any of the German troops when bombarding was going to occur. Thanks for the thoughts.

Samarami's picture

Marvin:

    "...It's easier to fight the bad guys without than to tackle the slave master in your mind...."

This is a good thought, Marvin. "If you're going to be free, you'll need to start acting free..." is a paraphrase from an article from some years past by my friend, Mark Davis.

You can read the article here.

Sam

tomcat's picture

This Article is in many ways typical.It emphasizes on the
losses of Freedom, Money and human lives on the american Side.
These are the losses that count.One could very well get the
Impression that all these Wars wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt
about these american Sacrifices.So much Selfcenteredness and Self Pity.!
In other Regions of the world People experience a similar Amount of Loss
not over years and decades but within a few weeks.

@Glock27:
Never mind, of course this has nothing to do with american foreign Policy
and military Actions, no way, they brought this all to themselves.!

Many Americans seem to have a rather simplistic view of the world.
As if it comes right out of a naive 1950's Wild West Movie.
"We are the good Guys, we acting only good and justly and
whoever stands up against the singing Cowboy must be
the Villain."
So why do so many People in other Parts of the World hate
America ? Since there can't be a reasonable Cause its most likely
because you are great, clever and just and they are second class, stupid
and evil.Maybe with some effort they can be brought to their senses so
they become more like you.
Masturbating in Front of your own mirror image and sending yourself flowers
afterwards because you have been such a great lover!

Just try not to fall for Groupidentity and Herdinstinct, dont be a "right
or wrong my country - Hurrah"-Patridiot.

They have their Salafists, you have your Biblebelt.Look for a Christian fundamentalist
in your own Land, shouldnt be difficult to find one after you have taken the Plank out
of your own Eye.The Views about the role of women in society and the disrespect and
sometimes outright Hatred for People with non standard Sexuality or the "wrong" faith
are very similar on both Sides.If it wasnt about some minor Differences in their "holy
Books" they could actually become good friends.

As far as the "extinction of the Jews" is concerned, get yourself a correct Translation of
the referring Ahmadinejad-Speech.

Learn about the Role the Europeans and the Americans played in the Middle east during the
last hundred Years especially in Iran and Irak and the way the State of Israel was created.

But maybe you see nothing wrong in giving some stupid Natives a colonial Treatment due
to your own History.
Otherwise do you know the Difference between a Jew and a Zionist ?.That many Jews, Rabbis,
prominent Artists and Intellectuals are outspoken Opponents of "eretz Israel".?

Could you tell me why a suicidebomber is a criminal coward while a Fighterpilot or
Droneoperator dropping his Bombs killing either "accidently" or "inevitably" civilians
is a brave Hero?
Just because he considers himself as a Reincarnation of Roy Rogers?

Your best friends in the Region are Israel, a copycat of former Apartheid-South Africa and
Saudi-Arabia, by Americas own double Standards of human rights and "democracy" by far
the worst Regime in whole Region.
There is no intellectual or moral Superiority on your Side, only Arrogance, Greed and
the Lust for Power.
With most of the hostility against you caused by your own Actions, if your are
looking for Terrorists, you can tell your "innocent Grunts" to look at those who are
giving the Orders.And then they should look at each other: those who are obeying
the Orders.

Glock27's picture

Are you positing that suicide bombers and etc, are good people, and Americans are bad?
Are you willing to go to Iran and live there for a year or so?
Yes. I love my country. I would gladly serve for my country, and my country is not the government, God forbid, I would not serve that crap heap of morons in Washington!
What do you stand for?
Why do you stand for what you believe?
Could you be just as open with your opinions in Iran or China or North Viet Nam?
Would you go to those places and say what you are now saying?
Do you enjoy hurting other people?

Samarami's picture

Jim Davies had an excellent treatment of the reification that is "The State" a couple months ago. You can read it here.

There is definitely a problem in definition whenever a sincere friend declares, "...I love my country!" Shades of Merle Haggard.

Just what is "my country"??? Is it my Mom? Apple pie? My wife? My farm? My children??? You see, most of us have been so inundated with government ("public" ha ha) schools and state propaganda/educational schemes that many simply couldn't begin to define exactly what they mean when they utter such statements.

That's the genius of politics: the lucidity to becloud each syllable they speak in such a manner as to virtually dazzle large percentages of the population in their area of influence out of their wages and their savings -- total obfuscation.

If I believe one statement proclaimed by a functionary of state ("senator", "congresscritter", "potus") I've taken my first step down the proverbial Primrose Path. Particularly when one of those vultures presumes to quote one of "our" omnipresent "forefathers".

"The State" is organized, monopolized violence. State agents are violent.
"The State" is thievery. State agents are thieves.
"The State" is an illusion. State agents are impotent.

I'm serving my country. Right here. Right now. By helping you (if you're relatively new here) see and grasp liberty. I had to dump a lot of mental garbage to get here.

But I'm here.

Sam

Samarami's picture
    Heroes and Soldiers
    Posted by Laurence Vance on May 31, 2012 04:57 PM

    Someone sent me this quote: "A hero is someone who stands up for his beliefs, a martyr is someone who dies for a cause, and a soldier is someone who dies for someone else's profit."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/113096.html

Sam

Glock27's picture

Wow! That's a lot of intellectualism. Damed!

Glock27's picture

Sam,

I know you have spent a long time to arrive at where your are at today; from my perspective "My Country tis of thee sweet land of Liberty of thee I sing."
Nothing of what you have said here can I disagree with. My Country is nothing of what it use to be and the odds of it ever being so is like hearing a fart twenty-seven light years away. My country is in my dream "Sweet land of Liberty", but with the Skexies (animated film years back: ugly bird like creatures controling everything) ruling everything "Sweet Land of Liberty" remains only a dream. That, at this time, is how I see my Country.
When I opened my package to retrieve my brand new Garmin 570 GPS I use for hunting, the warrenty was covered in about 37 different languages. What's so wrong with our Language.
Every Nationality that comes flooding into our bounderies seem to want one thing, not Liberty, but the benefits our government is so ready to hand out to every Juan, Fritz, Ping Chow, and etc. only to have their vote.
What's this got to do with my Country? Nothing, but it has everything in the world to rape us of our "Sweet land of Liberty."
Everything I have said here is fluffy fluf except "My Country tis of thee Sweet land of Liberty of thee I sing".
Who am I? I haven't the slightest idea, but I believe that Sam has lit a candle in the far distance and I can see it, and I am marching towards it because it has been the brightes light here so far.
Thanks Sam!