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  • Darkcrusade's picture
    Darkcrusade 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Glen Allport
    The only use for philosophers is to argue with other philosophers.It is self evident,i think therefore i am. Self ownership is inherent,a gift of God.Personal souvreignty, Case in point> A robber breaks into your house and threatens you at the point of a gun. Discretion being the better part of valor, you give in and tell him where your valuables are hidden. But you make the decision, and you do the telling. If, instead of a robber, it were a kidnaper after your child, it would be a different story. But in either case, your thoughts and acts are under your own control. Thousands of men and women have suffered torture and even death without speaking a word that their persecutors tried to make them speak. Your freedom of action may be (rights maybe violated)forbidden, restricted, or prevented by force. The robber, kidnaper, or jailer may bind your hands and feet and put a gag in your mouth. But the fact remains that no amount of force can make you act unless you agree -perhaps with hesitation and regret - to do so. This leads to a very important point - in fact, to two important points : 1. Individual freedom is the natural heritage of each living person. 2. Freedom cannot be separated from responsibility. Your natural freedom -your control over your own life energy was born in you along with life itself. It is a part of life itself. No one can give it to you, nor can you give it to someone else. Nor can you hold any other person responsible for your acts. Control simply can't be separated from responsibility; control is responsibility. Insects and animals follow certain patterns of action. Honeybees, for example, all make the same hexagonal cells of wax. Beavers all build the same form of dam, and the same kinds of birds make the same kinds of nests. Generation after generation, they continue to follow their changeless routines - always doing the same things in the same ways. But a man is different because he is a human being; and as a human being, he has the power of reason, the power of imagination, the ability to capitalize on the experiences of the past and the present as bearing on the problems of the future. He has the ability to change himself as well as his environment. He has the ability to progress and to keep on progressing. Plants occupy space and contend with each other for it. Animals defend their possession of places and things. But man has enormous powers, of unknown extent, to make new things and to change old things into new forms. He not only owns property, but he also actually creates property. In the last analysis, a thing is not property unless it is owned; and without ownership, there is little incentive to improve it.> http://mises.org/resources/3498/The-Mainspring-of-Human-Progress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hQFO6ugWxU&feature=related Three miracles- 1 That there is something,rather than nothing. 2 That there is a habitable planet anywhere in the universe. 3 That there is High-functioning life.In the imago dei.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    "Its" is an objectification, dehumanization, degradation, technique used by abusers and tyrants to demean the worth of the human life of whomever they do not like. It's clear that Suverans2's cheap talk about "natural rights" is a mere debate convenience.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Slave-mentality can consist of any of these elements: * A strong orientation of "I'm right; you (and practically everything and everybody else) are wrong. * A compulsion or obsession to blame others and things or factors outside yourself. * A belief that the world in general is unfair. * A belief that "society" or the world owes you what you need. * The belief that because of "government," "its laws," etc. you can't be free. * An emphasis on changing or "fighting" factors outside yourself ("the system," "the ruling class," "big-daddy-government," etc.). * Submission to real or imagined "external authorities."
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    I got a little criticism from the media types on this site and I really worry a lot about that! LOL Thanks for letting me know where you stand. I suspected as much given your odd postings to a troll on your threads Gak! It was a bit of a let down to read the rugged individualism articles you write and then to watch you telling a troll what great points it was making. But I let it go then (not now)...
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Atlas, you compound your lies. You stated that many have died from malaria because of a DDT ban. • In reality, DDT was never banned for use against malaria. • In reality, DDT is still being used worldwide today. One thing I've been learning from you is that reality matters little to your type. The hatred of those who actually observe reality was my first hint. I suppose you must think the propaganda you believe above is somehow "axiomatic" and can't be fact-checked.
  • painkilleraz's picture
    painkilleraz 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    In the end what is most unfortunate is that free men engaged regularly in ridiculous jousting over contrary views for the sake of ego promotion. In one line disease,infections, and medicine can be explained in the west with the following. The state cannot save anyone, and can only hinder what may truly work through useless legislation and temporary albeit horrific bandaids.
  • painkilleraz's picture
    painkilleraz 4 years 46 weeks ago Web link Westernerd
    Yes, the state =s zero liberty while the lowly individual without the state is liberty.
  • painkilleraz's picture
    painkilleraz 4 years 46 weeks ago Page painkilleraz
    Those are great authors and I will indeed look to their work - as for the other, yes resoundingly and unfortunately, yes :( the state can keep its roads- as what is necessary for free trade without state compulsion will occur with free individuals working together!
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Regarding the so-called harmlessness of "lying" trolls...I'd like to thank Dr Ron Paul for bringing this to me attention when he responded to Billy O'Reilly and called him out on his knavish ways. And my thanks to Suverans2 Regarding The Sad Truths of Internet trolls now *amplified*: http://www.strike-the-root.com/entanglement-of-compassion-and-liberty#co... ...#11. It is hardly "easier to think" and explore ideas and trade with others if one has a "troll or vandal" around...It is "submissive"--amongst other things--if one continues to give such by conceding the moral high ground...Laughing at this is of course an option. Feel free to do so as long as that makes sense. #12. Who--once enlightened--would accept let alone entertain the notion that a "troll or vandal" "provides documented evidence that YOU hold contradictions, and that encourages YOU to check your premises". Indeed you do if you let him/her have its way with you....Laughing at this is of course an option as long as that makes sense. #13. "If one wants to strike-at-the-root of increased violence, it can be traced back to one thing DOMESTICATION" ~ This coming from a troll to his victims is how *funny* to you dear reader? #14. Some trolls exhibit the above and when their statements and persona *reflect the politically motivated and government funded education system* backed by tin badges and guns such as cops, universal soldiers and other government agents, they become extremely dangerous. This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths and their power trips. http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html I do not see Regina Rabonovich, nor Rachel Carson nor equivalent agendas (Keynes, Krugman, Friedman, Positivists) as harmless! It would be laughable if not so tragic. I do not underestimate the power of words and ideas thanks to Ayn Rand and Frederick Mann: Slavespeak http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/tl07a.shtml The University of Iowa pulled down the article that the post above addresses and Bill and Melinda Gates continue to shed tears and fund massive grants to organizations to find a cure while IGNORING the *empirical scientific evidence* of DDT. Much like witnessing a troll using its *empirical scientific evidence* to trying to find a cure for the Free Market, 'Knowledge" and this site. And meanwhile 800,000 children continue to die every year. The equivalent of 7 jumbo jets filled with children crashing every day.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    ~DDT was banned according to the very same source cited, "The book's publication[--Rachel Carson's Silent Spring--] was one of the signature events in the birth of the environmental movement, and resulted in a large public outcry that eventually led to DDT being banned in the US in 1972. DDT was subsequently banned for *agricultural use worldwide* under the Stockholm Convention, but its limited use in disease vector control continues to this day..." https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/DDT ~Spraying isolated areas does not cut it! Laws banning widespread spraying is hardly the same as widespread spraying. It is not hard to figure out that limited spraying (vector control) allows unaffected mosquitoes to swarm in. Duh! ~DDT was limited and its use curtailed for unscientific reasons (as it relates to Resistance and Safety) [Alleged] Resistance and the harm both to humans and the environment led many governments to restrict or curtail the use of DDT [even] in vector control *as well as agriculture*. Obviously Vector control is not working for mosquito borne malaria as malaria has increased enormously since the 1970 ban. Vs ~Scientifically proven safety and efficacy of DDT. In 1948, Dr. Paul H. Muller of Switzerland was awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine because of the medical importance of DDT. In Sri Lanka in 1948, before using DDT, there were 2.8 million cases of malaria. By 1963, because of the widespread spraying usage of DDT, there were ONLY 17 (SEVENTEEN) CASES OF MALARIA!! DDT has never harmed a single human being. *Humans can and have eaten DDT with no ill effects*. But politicians, in spite of empirical and scientific proof of its safety and benefits*, banned it in the mid 1960s. By 1969, cases in Sri Lanka reach 2.5 million again. ~Wide spread spraying works! Of what good is "vector" control when a person walks out of the controlled area and into or thru an agricultural / city area where malaria mosquitoes thrive? Simple physics say that the vector control area was overwhelmed by the surrounding untreated agricultural area. If I put my fist in a pale of water then pull it out, how big is the hole, and how long does it last? ~How important is a human life? It makes sense to hold fast to the scientific method and the free market. That an evidenced troll is lecturing that banning and limited usage (vector control) instituted by Government citing Rachel Carson's Silent Spring IS the same as the documented actual solution--widespread spraying of DDT AND its proven safety to human--tells me that it knows little of this issue nor science other than to obfuscate the obvious. Which it has been doing since it got here.
  • Samarami's picture
    Samarami 4 years 46 weeks ago Web link Westernerd
    Of course this fails to address why there are "Obama's" at all. Or "Obamacare" or "Republicare". Liberty will eliminate such atrocities. I don't mean the individual -- who knows, Barack may have some redeeming value as a husband and a parent and a human being at some location in some niche of the marketplace if a Power greater than he would quell Obama the man's gigantic vanity, ego and pride. Liberty will eliminate worship of the potus and all it's lackeys and sociopathic goons. My President, for example, is the Commander-in-chief of, among other things, the rotation of the earth on its axis. I support the Incumbent. That's a lot of liberty for this old skudder. Sam
  • Samarami's picture
    Samarami 4 years 46 weeks ago Web link Westernerd
    "...It would seem both alternatives are unfair, from a standpoint of religious freedom—either the state is violating the religious liberty of certain groups that wish to partake in certain activities (or refrain from certain activities) as a matter of conscience, or it is carving loopholes for such groups while denying the rights of others to engage in the same conduct. To take another example, if a conscientious objector is free not to be forced to serve in war on religious grounds—which he should be—why cannot a conscientious objector have secular or other ideological reasons for not going to war?..." (emphasis mine -- sam) Much as I enjoy Gregory's insight and style in general, I believe he and many (if not most) "libertarian" writers tend to commit one mortal error: they subconsciously absolve the perpetrators of crimes and the obstacles to freedom that those same libertarian writers outline in their otherwise excellent essays. At the same time they reinforce legitimacy of "the state" -- so necessary for those sociopaths bent upon expanding government power and controlling individual freedom. The "state" is not violating religious liberty. The State is the violation of religious liberty. Agents of the state are violating religious and a whole host of other liberties. You might think this trivial, but I'm convinced it is at the heart and core of why the hundreds of Anthony Gregory's of libertarianism cannot finally and totally divorce themselves from governmentalist ideology. "John Smith, US Congressman, and his colleagues who voted "aye" in support of this religious exemption have personally created this unfairness..." Name individual trigger people -- don't let them hide under the mantle of the abstract "state" to continue their aggressions. Sam
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    The free market is organized by individual people voluntarily without compulsion acting in their own self-best interest. That is what humans do. There is no system. A grocery store is not run using the State's command control coercion nor need it! Nor need any other field! --There is *No We*: Challenge the Premise.-- http://zerogov.com/?p=2334 There Is a difference between those who seek to build a system, and those who only seek to build! If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.~ Thomas Pynchon I don't discount that the troll vanished and arrived here from Troll Island--drivel intact--at about the same time attention and criticism of Ron Paul, Austrian economics and libertarians surfaced. http://www.strike-the-root.com/liberty-stability#comment-5003
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    You lie again, Atlas. DDT was never banned for Malaria prevention, and is still used for it today. Check your premises. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Like Regina Rabinovich the troll blames the remnant free market and ignores "knowledge" (see Suverans2 post) the very same that led us to life saving technology (such as DDT) and city-agriculture (that sustains us)! Like Regina Rabinovich it--the troll--could be using its *scientific empirical "knowledge"* and so-called "Randroid" expertise trolling those actually responsible for this tragedy but it is happier ignoring the facts and smearing this free market site. Ignoring what has been going on since the late 60's AND that DDT has been *scientifically and empirically* proven as safe for humans. From the time she--Regina Rabonovich--majored in "anthropology"-- at the University of Iowa, she wanted to be a change agent yet the points addressed in the post above were ignored. Much like the troll response: "I don't ignore any facts. If you have any, name them". Indeed the facts have been named and indeed the facts are being ignored. Make no mistake dear reader what we have here is the equivalent to Regina Rabinovich Make no mistake here what we have here is a troll = Tribal Primitivism Make no mistake here what we have here is another Rachel Carlson... * Rachel Carson's fable about the alleged dangers of pesticides, the 1962 book, Silent Spring, became a classic of the environmental movement despite the fact that it was a work of fiction. The book had a powerful influence, however, and governments throughout the world banned DDT and other pesticides beginning in the early 1970s. This ban has led to the death of literally millions of people in the Third World from malaria. *It has also caused numerous crop disasters as voracious insects that were once killed off with DDT are no longer, and substitutes are often unaffordable in Third World countries*. Emphasis Added. In 1970, shortly before DDT was banned, the National Academy of Sciences determined that DDT had saved 500 million lives over the previous three decades by eradicating malaria-carrying mosquitoes. DDT was banned by the U.S. government in the early 1970s despite the fact that no science was presented that it had the effects that Carson and the environmental movement claimed it had. Even if the National Academy of Sciences estimate of lives saved by DDT is off by a multiple of two, Rachel Carson and her crusade against the pesticide would still be responsible for more human deaths than most of the worst tyrants in world history. [4] We are told that we have not provided any facts worthy of consideration. We are overruled by a troll. And it commands us to cleave to its backward looking field of study and backward thinking ways.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    The State itself is a technology ("a system of organization" [wiki]) which is necessary to orchestrating agricultural city-Statism (civilization.) It took much knowledge and thinking of "Big Men" (emergent elite) to create it. Oops, you didn't think of that, did ya? You're against the foundational Mass Society organization technology underlying all civilization.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    I'm neither a primitivist nor a techno-utopian. I think both positions are simple-minded.. TechJudge Ran Prieur http://www.ranprieur.com/tech.html Not all primitivists are against technology in and of itself; only some. Many primitivists hold a view that technology is ambiguous. Technology is found among all “primitive” peoples to one extent or another, so obviously there is some sustainable level of techology. 5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why They’re Wrong Jason Godesky | 26 October 2005 http://www.rewild.info/anthropik/2005/10/5-common-objections-to-primitiv...
  • Suverans2's picture
    Suverans2 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    "The central tenet of primitivism, anarcho-primitivism and anti-civilisationism is the abolition of technology." ~ libcom.org One doesn't have to score in the 98th percentile or higher, (thank goodness), to realize that it's not "technology", or even "agricultural city-statism (civilization)", that is the cause of all Mankind's/Earth's woes. It is "knowledge"!! It is "knowledge" that brought man out of the stone-aged hunter/gather lifestyle; it is "knowledge" that brought us "technology" and "agricultural city-statism (civilization)"! It is, therefore, "knowledge" that should be vehemently, mercilessly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, and repeatedly, attacked, for without "knowledge" there would be no "technology" and no "agricultural city-statism (civilization). I perceive that those who make up the ruling elite are doing their part to crush "knowledge". This is called "dumbing down*". But, you "primitivists" need to do your part. "DOWN WITH KNOWLEDGE!!!" "DOWN WITH KNOWLEDGE!!!" "DOWN WITH KNOWLEDGE!!!" ...should be your new mantra. Repeat it loudly and endlessly, and endlessly, and endlessly, and endlessly, and endlessly, and endlessly, and endlessly...on everyone else's websites...because, if you were to start your own website, virtually no one would visit it. _________________________________________________________________ *Definition: Dumbing down is a term used to refer to the hiding of natural intellectual abililities. [See, it's already working. This definer misspelled "abilities".]
  • Suverans2's picture
    Suverans2 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Here, for your entertainment is a more humorous look at "dumbing down".
  • Jim Davies's picture
    Jim Davies 4 years 46 weeks ago
    Liberty Stability
    Page Jim Davies
    Perhaps it did, Atlas Aikido, but my impression of the Troll Island family is that they are powerful but harmless. They do wear funny pointed headgear, or so it's widely rumored, but their mischief-making is just a sport. They are not known as drivelers, but do have some mysterious powers. For example, you may have noticed that the island is dark, in the photo at http://www.theanarchistalternative.info/zgb/BB2.JPG - some may attribute that to a passing cloud but no! - those trolls have the ability to take a perfectly clear, bright scene and bring darkness and confusion at an instant's notice; in this case, just as my finger squeezed the camera shutter. There's another example at http://theanarchistalternative.info/zgb/TS2.JPG - which shows a rock the size of a minivan, balanced delicately on three small stones in the middle of a forest not far from Troll Island. It's _possible_ that in some ancient era humans placed it there, but it would have been a major feat of engineering for no evident purpose; all the natives in those parts call it the "Troll Stone" and take it as proof that trolls exist. Why did they do it? - just to show they could.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Yours is an agricultural city-statism (civilization) agenda, not mine. I don't ignore any facts. If you have any, name them.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    This is a free market site! Trying to re-enforce what amounts to the Statist Economic agendas of Keynes, Krugman, Friedman and positivists, sanctions emboldens and feeds politicians and their witnessed destruction--as pointed out in Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" and Mises, Thoreau's works! The truth is that there was NO resistance developed to DDT—at least not by insects. However, *politicians* AND trolls are remarkably adept at developing resistance to truth and to the suffering of the *HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS* of new malaria victims created by *political bans* on the use of DDT. Harker's article has a side column featuring *Regina Rabinovich*. She writes: * "Pharmaceutical and biotech companies have little incentive to develop products against malaria, a classic example of market failure. This is tragic in the light of findings that the development of a preventive vaccine is technically feasible." * She completely ignores the historic role of DDT's near eradication of malaria, and her statement itself is an example of the *failure of the politically motivated and government funded education system*, NOT OF THE FREE MARKET where she and trolls attempt to place the blame. Instead it is "a classic example of" *political meddling in a free market*—and at a horrendous cost in human lives *which even exceeds that of wars between governments during the 20th Century*. Emphasis added. When considering the number of human deaths involved, her blackout of the role of DDT is obscene!! The troll ignores the role of Thoreau, Mises, Rand, The Austrian School and Libertarianism as it pertains to the Free Market AND attempts to dis-credit this agorist/anarchist site with statist equivalent non-sequiters just like Regina Rabinovich! It--the troll--could do something that is properly the purview of its scientific empirical data training as pointed out in the above prior posts. But it is happier ignoring these facts and placing blame where it does not belong just like Regina Rabinovich.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    It's your dear leader who justifies Genocide. And 800,000 children dying a year from starvation. To feed and clothe the hierarchical elite capitalist elite. You'll deny guilt; psychopaths to that sort of thing.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Moral high horse; you recognize who holds the moral high ground. Ride on, gambol about plain and forest, gathering and hunting. If you don't think you'd fall off. Otherwise, you're pretty worthless. Hate to bring meritocracy into it, but you ain't offering much but preacher's words. Feel as worthless as a welfare mother now, Atlas? You don't think they're worth anything. (In egalitarian Non-State society, there's a place to fit for everybody. Just like anthropologists observe amongst the few Non-State societies untrammeled by city-Statists like you.)
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Someone here IS by all definitions *actually wasting* their talents and barking up the wrong tree attributing to this free market site non-sequiters (amongst other things). According its very own proselytizing regarding scientific empirical data: Here is a REAL TRAGEDY that it should be working on given its beliefs--see threads--instead of mis-allocating its science training that ape Keynes, Krugman, Friedman, monism and positivists and thereby serving politicians. There are 800,000 unnecessary dead children every year not counting adults and deformed children since the late 60's. DDT Ban & Malaria: An Unnecessary Tragedy, INDEED!! In 1948, Dr. Paul H. Muller of Switzerland was awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine because of the medical importance of DDT. In Sri Lanka in 1948, before using DDT, there were 2.8 million cases of malaria. By 1963, because of the use of DDT, there were ONLY 17 (SEVENTEEN) CASES OF MALARIA!! DDT has never harmed a single human being. Humans can and have eaten DDT with no ill effects. *But politicians, in spite of empirical and scientific proof of its safety and benefits*, banned it in the mid 1960s. By 1969, cases in Sri Lanka reach 2.5 million again. Related comment: http://www.strike-the-root.com/bureaucratization-of-airport-security#com...
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Getting off its moral high horse and preaching to issues and attributing to this site things that have nothing to do with this site --which is free market--is really an attempt "to have its agenda and make us eat it" AND at the expense of a valid application of its very own empirical data and teachings! Talk about being turned around! See links for tie back comments: http://www.strike-the-root.com/bureaucratization-of-airport-security#com... http://www.strike-the-root.com/bureaucratization-of-airport-security#com... "Times up" indeed. And that "observation" including links, IS hardly "silly", it IS gut wrenchingly TRAGIC: Every second it wastes here with irrelevant non-sequtiers is a second gone that it could have been doing something that actually *IS a proper use of empirical science* findings regarding DDT AND failing to act on that is the cause 3200 children dying a day since the 1960's!!
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    By your definition you are here to show up and stick it to The Austrian School and Libertarianism, Rand, Mises etc whilst furthering your cause but you are ACTUALLY wasting your resources. When they should be spent saving the 800,000 children that will indeed die unnecessarily this year (apparently/perhaps since the 60's you have been unaware of this). Multiply that out. If you are so concerned about Rand justifying/being a conveyor belt of genocide and apparently NOT the POLS and their Lincoln like Mercantilism agenda with Sherman and Grant like armies genocide of races I would think that this should be something YOU would want to do something about by your own We-ism teachings! A worthy cause. 800,000 children that won't die this year if you start trolling the powers that be. And the data is empirically valid regarding the issues! DDT is safe! And you would be making people aware of the situation. And you would be taking on the Politicians cut from the very same cloth of those that took out your brothers and which the Austrian School and Libertarianism are showing up for what they are--sociopaths. See Lewrockwell.com
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    you said • "much rides on the education part" That's what the sacred pederast the Apostle Paul thought. If you haven't read Philemon 1:9-11, you won't know what I meant by the antecedent to "apostle." You're not much different to Paul. you said • "quickly reach critical mass" Schnell! Schnell! English subtitles: "Quickly! Quickly!" I got that from a black and white movie made in, quite strangely, 1993. (Starring Liam Neeson and Ben Kingsley.) You said • "I can only fall back to Harry Browne and the Covenant of Unanimous Consent--What I control myself." Trust in HayZeus. Or start thinking outside of MisesGospel, etal. Just for the weekend. THERE IS NO SAVIOR, ANYWHERE.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    You hold a contradiction: • I am not discounting science and sensory experience. • I am questioning as does the Austrian School the silliness of apeing physics like methodology in the social sciences. Pick one. Hint: Observation isn't silly. Austrian school is silly. Time's up. Humans are just as observable as any other animal specie. P.S. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    There was a context that led to the statements made. The thread addressed those issues. Someone here took unction to the word "belief". I explained such from a personal perspective. Again, I am not discounting science and sensory experience. I am questioning as does the Austrian School the silliness of apeing physics like methodology in the social sciences. If I remember Jack Welsh tried to do the same by using a very scientific parts manufacturing defect methodology on human beings and manage them more efficiently like empirical parts data. It was highly destructive of innovation and individual work ownership. (The only way it could survive, like a cancer was to infect other companies and bring them down to par obsolescence). It was sold as the most scientific way to achieve QUALITY (*The empirical data said so*!). Gee who doesn't want quality? Eventually workers had to quit cheat or wait out their time to retirement but these blue chip companies ended up with the equivalents of the very best 20th Century buggy whips and the highest quality slide rulers not to mention less deep pockets... The issue is and always will be: Do You Own Yourself? by Butler Shaffer http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer9.html For those actually interested "On Reclaiming Self-Ownership" without waiting for the rest of the world and every living thing... http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer10.html I am certainly not discounting science and observation nor empirical information...Property" is not simply some social invention, like Emily Post’s guide to etiquette, but a way of describing conditions that are essential to all living things. Every living thing must occupy space and consume energy from outside itself if it is to survive, and it must do so to the exclusion of all other living things on the planet. I didn’t dream this up. My thinking was not consulted before the life system developed. The world was *observed* operating on the property principle when I arrived and, like the rest of us, I had to work out my answers to that most fundamental, pragmatic of all social questions: who gets to make decisions about what? The essence of "ownership" is to be found in control: who gets to be the ultimate decision maker about people and "things" in the world?....The Covenant Of Unanimous Consent is about controlling oneself in inter-relationships and Harry Browne's Freedom in Unfreeworld supports that. ...Indeed all of our social problems are the direct consequence of a general failure to respect the inviolability of one another’s property interests! http://www.strike-the-root.com/liberty-stability#comment-4960 Reference: http://www.strike-the-root.com/liberty-stability#comment-4968 To Suverans2 point, posted on January 20, 2012 Great quote: "How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively?" ~ Walter E. Williams I would add: "How does something moral, when done privately, become immoral when it is done collectively?" Look at GE's defect methodology Quality initiative and you will find lots of Science Empiricism--like Keynes and Krugman--and companies such as Kodak...being taken out by folks working out of their garages unrestricted by the wrong discipline as their guiding principle. Turns out unrestricted innovation at the worker level--as the Austrian School has shown time and again--is more important than the so-called back ward fitting of empirical science of "quality" in the social sciences and economics) References: http://www.strike-the-root.com/crony-capitalism-blame-progressives http://www.strike-the-root.com/liberty-stability#comment-5003
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Actually with Ron Paul in office the issue of "if population has not seen enough of the light such as ideas in Market For Liberty by Tannehill or The Austrian School/Libertarians or the Most Dangerous Superstition by l. Rose or Jim Davies works then the struggle will have to be begun again" *will likely be rendered moot* Indeed much rides on the education part AND to what extent individuals are free in their thinking and this would likely quickly reach critical mass with Ron Paul in office. But again even that is too much outside my control. I can only fall back to Harry Browne and the Covenant of Unanimous Consent--What I control myself. (I agree with Sam's cogent point).
  • Samarami's picture
    Samarami 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Indian's quote from "Signs of distress: 0-1200 C.E." ...The human condition is what it is, and no amount of effort on your part will change that; it’s not within your power to save your people, your friends, your parents, your children, or your spouse, but there is one person (and only one) you can save, and that’s you. Nobody can save you but you, and there’s nobody you can save but yourself. You can carry the word to others and they can carry the word to you, but it never comes down to anything but this, whether it’s Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, or Islam: Nobody can save you but you, and there’s nobody you can save but yourself. Salvation is of course the most wonderful thing you can achieve in your life — and you not only don’t have to share it, it isn’t even possible to share it... This, I believe, is absolutely dead-on. "..If it's going to be, it's up to me..." I am here, and it is now. Nothing I can do today about the fact the white man massacred the existing nomadic natives here. Well, there is: I can resolve to only accept yours or anybody else's "doctrine" after I've examined and made personal assessment as to veracity. And after that I want to remain flexible and open to your opinions even when they differ drastically with mine. I might have some disagreement with the author's last phrase, "...it isn't even possible to share it..." Depending upon how s/he meant this (and as Atlas stated this was written centuries prior to internet and our access to mass communication), I'd say STR is one of many, many internet sites available to share our feelings and our strengths and our hopes. If it weren't, neither you nor I would be here. As Jim Davies so eloquently stated above, I'm at this moment making the free-market choice of tapping out this response in lieu of relaxing on the couch. And I'm making one more free-market choice: I'm sincerely trying to share my personal observations without engaging in pissin' matches with any of you. Mama cautioned me about that over 70 years ago (especially about the futility of pissin' matches with skunks). I agree wholeheartedly with Paul's comment: A solution is something that fixes a problem. Right now. That solution is available: stop using airlines. So comes the rebuttal: "..But that's NOT freedom!..." OK. You win. There will always be elements to restrict my freedom. I'm not free to walk alone late at night in certain parts of the city -- not without risk of getting myself shot or beat up and my valuables stolen. I'm not free to have all the luxuries you have (without willingness to work my ass off -- and at 76 time is running out). But I can be free to enjoy what I do have: 24 grandkids, over half of them homeschooled; a modest but adequate home in a nice old neighborhood of folks who respect and look out for each other. My house has been in our family for 100 years, and I'm sure my neighbors look askance at my "liberty" as somewhat odd. But thanks to Indian and a few others I've seen the advantage of removing the "ism" from my liberty. I am free. You can be free also. Yes, you can. Sam
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    "Liberty" is the bait; the aggression necessary to maintain the agricultural city-Statist system of privation property and whatever it takes to keep wealth and power flowing up the hierarchical pyramid to higher, tighter, and righter hands is the core of libertarianism. As John Scalzi brilliantly quips: Libertarians secretly worried that ultimately someone will figure out the whole of their political philosophy boils down to “Get Off My Property.” News flash: This is not really a big secret to the rest of us. I Hate Your Politics March 22, 2002 http://whatever.scalzi.com/2002/03/22/i-hate-your-politics/ Don't feel picked-on, he skewers all politics. As I've said before, all agricultural city-Statism (civilization) politics are nearly equally horrid solutions to living in a man-made prison.
  • Samarami's picture
    Samarami 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Indian: Libertarianism is an unfree bait-and-switch swindle. As I so often respond (to ignorance): "That's a heavy load to carry!" Sam
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Web link Guest
    Congratulations! Keep that Civilization Syndrome* at bay. I've had good luck improving my health with the help of the Weston A. Price foundation, which gives the above reviewed book Primal Blueprint a thumbs up.** ____________________ * Björntorp P. (1993) Visceral obesity: a "civilization syndrome". Obes Res 1(3):206-22. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16350574 ** The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson Wise Traditions in Food, Farming and the Healing Arts (the quarterly magazine of the Weston A. Price Foundation) Winter 2010 http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-up-reviews/the-primal-blueprint-by-ma...
  • lazyspaceman's picture
    lazyspaceman 4 years 46 weeks ago Web link Guest
    I started on Jan 9th, weighing 260 pounds (age 47) that day, up from 185 when I got married six years ago. This morning (Jan 20) I tipped the scales at 250 on my way back to the 185! I too feel much better - more energy, sleeping better and less aches and pains. It's tough to cut out the grains for me since I work in a brewery as the head brewer but I've done pretty well, only two beers since I started the Primal Blueprint. I highly recommend this book to anyone who needs to lose weight or get back in shape, it's easy and you don't feel deprived or hungry.
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Ah, the Internets as personal Savior. Can't be saved without accepting a dial-up connection to God. I'd be even holier with a T3 line to discover Ron Paul's plan for my life. And I'll be careful to not fall for the Calvinist-Communist heresy, one must be pure Arminian-Austrian to be accepted into the Pearly Gates of Libertopia. And I'm encouraged to read the good words of approved Scriptures. And accept the Invisible Hand's carefully worded Covenant of Unanimous Christos with his Chosen Ones. Whew! Ya know, I've heard this logos spiel before: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~John 1:1
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    It's not logical to accept as "axiomatic" premises that have been debunked by empirical data. Yet you evade observation, and hide behind your silly denouncement of Positivism. I'm no positivist; but neither do I reject science and sensory experience. When you make a claim in the realm of the observable, and declare something about the observable as "axiomatic," and your axiom is weighted in the balance and found wanting, you should be willing to check your premises.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Not as in belief that is unreasoning "faith"/"dogma" but as in logical understanding.... Substitute "Believe" with "As best as I can tell"... "Yeah you know" I get that...
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    "I believe." Yeah, I know.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    The Long answer: ~There was NO Internet Reformation in the data--Signs of distress: 1400-0 B.C.E. And Signs of distress: 0-1200 C.E--you supply nor a Ron Paul nor an awakened population. The data factors have changed. The Austrian School/Libertarians are not as blind as you presume and conflate with Communist true believers. ~Ron Paul foresaw that the wars would be accompanied by the growth of military and police powers along with the erosion of our civil liberties. ~Having studied central banking and applied the insights of great economist like Mises, Ron Paul has described both in advance and in detail the cycle of bubbles and busts *the Federal Reserve* has plagued us with. http://lewrockwell.com/goyette/goyette23.1.html The short answer: ~If you are stating that it makes more sense to let a fascist system collapse instead of letting it revive and re-live as mini-statism then that is a different matter. If the population has not seen enough of the light such as ideas in Market For Liberty by Tannehill or The Austrian School/Libertarians or the Most Dangerous Superstition by l. Rose then the struggle will have to be begun again anyway. Shortest answer: Much rides on the education part and to what extent individuals are free in their thinking. As best as I can tell. But even that is too much outside my control. I can only fall back to Harry Browne and the Covenant of Unanimous Consent--What I control myself.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    I believe I covered a summary of the issues here with a brief long, short and shortest answer... http://www.strike-the-root.com/bureaucratization-of-airport-security#com...
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Yours is a thinly-secularized modern Salvationist rhetoric. "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid." ~Jesus [verse 17, chapter 2, The Jefferson Bible] On Salvationism movements, the following excerpt is enlightening: Signs of distress: 1400-0 B.C.E. But new signs of distress appeared in this period that were far more relevant to our purpose here tonight. For the first time in history, people were beginning to suspect that something fundamentally wrong was going on here. For the first time in history, people were beginning to feel empty, were beginning to feel that their lives were not amounting to enough, were beginning to wonder if this is all there is to life, were beginning to hanker after something vaguely more. For the first time in history, people began listening to religious teachers who promised them salvation. It’s impossible to overstate the novelty of this idea of salvation. Religion had been around in our culture for thousands of years, of course, but it had never been about salvation as we understand it... Judaism, Brahmanism, Hinduism, Shintoism, and Buddhism all came into being during this period and had no existence before it. Quite suddenly, after six thousand years of totalitarian agriculture and civilization building, the people of our culture — East and West, twins of a single birth — were beginning to wonder if their lives made sense, were beginning to perceive a void in themselves that economic success and civil esteem could not fill, were beginning to imagine that something was profoundly, even innately, wrong with them. Signs of distress: 0-1200 C.E. ...The human condition is what it is, and no amount of effort on your part will change that; it’s not within your power to save your people, your friends, your parents, your children, or your spouse, but there is one person (and only one) you can save, and that’s you. Nobody can save you but you, and there’s nobody you can save but yourself. You can carry the word to others and they can carry the word to you, but it never comes down to anything but this, whether it’s Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, or Islam: Nobody can save you but you, and there’s nobody you can save but yourself. Salvation is of course the most wonderful thing you can achieve in your life — and you not only don’t have to share it, it isn’t even possible to share it. As far as these religions have it worked out, if you fail of salvation, then your failure is complete, whether others succeed or not. On the other hand, if you find salvation, then your success is complete again, whether others succeed or not. Ultimately, as these religions have it, if you’re saved, then literally nothing else in the entire universe matters. Your salvation is what matters. Nothing else not even my salvation (except of course, to me). This was a new vision of what counts in the world. Forget the boiling, forget the pain. Nothing matters but you and your salvation... THE BOILING FROG by Daniel Quinn Excerpt from the book, “The Story of B” http://www.oilcrash.com/articles/frog.htm
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Libertarianism is an unfree bait-and-switch swindle. While holding forth the bait of liberty and freedom, it mostly promotes agricultural city-Statism, while claiming it can somehow tame the Statism part. It can't. Yours isn't the only swindle out there. Communism does exactly the same thing: promotes agricultural city-Statism, while claiming it can somehow tame the Statism part. It can't either.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    How can "WE" *never* be free when you EVIDENTLY freed yourself from the so-called *"blood soaked whitewashing" of UNFREE "libertarianism"*? By merely "checking [your] premises'. Absurdity indeed!
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    "Freedom of Movement" is a classic measure of freedom. Sounds like "libertarianism" to me, yet you've "been a libertarian for years, until [you] started checking your premises". Must be more "muddying" of the water on your part. Oh well....tis the ways of a self professed Randoid.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    To those who claim "WE" can *never* be free and yet EVIDENTLY freed itself from the so-called "blood soaked whitewashing" of UNFREE "libertarianism". A walking reductio ad absurdem indeed!
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    If there is violence before the light then the struggle will have to be begun again. But the internet revolution/reformation and Ron Paul have made that moot. At the same time there are no guarantees that enough light has spread. How could there be? (Rhetorical)
  • WhiteIndian's picture
    WhiteIndian 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    Freedom of Non-Movement? LOL! Now free yourself of oxymorons. "You are now free to not move about the country" just isn't the best jingle to sell your ideology in the free market of ideas to, say, a traveling salesman.
  • AtlasAikido's picture
    AtlasAikido 4 years 46 weeks ago Page Alex Schroeder
    As Paul eloquently states: stop using airlines. This is as libertarian Harry Browne points out something called self-rule, self-control (anarchy): A Direct Alternative that does not need one to wait for the UNFREE to become free. BTW funny how the very same that criticize the growth of the Box Trap prison that it lives in, has EVIDENTLY freed itself from the very "libertarianism" that set me and others free--such as Harry Browne's.